How did you go from secret garden hobbyist to gardening podcaster?
I’d kept my love of gardening on the down-low. Then the guys at a production company saw an interview where I was wanging on about gardening and they thought, “She’s a real chatty gal, she should have her own podcast!” They introduced me to Adam Frost and we immediately hit it off. I am the eager, overenthusiastic acolyte to his Zen king of gardening.
And you film it in your own back garden…
Every middle-aged woman’s greatest dream is not Pedro Pascal or getting a free neck lift, it’s having more garden without having to move house. I bought a bit of my neighbour’s garden last year and it was the best moment of my life. I deliberately asked Adam loads of really stupid questions to provoke him into finally going, “This is a nightmare, I’ll plan it for you.”
What does “outsiding” mean to you?
It’s not just gardening. You could be into cold-water swimming, rambling or just sitting on your doorstep with one pot plant. It’s when you slam the door behind you and breathe. I tell my two daughters the world wants to make you happy. It will show you a bird, a tree, go sniff the roses. No one ever came back from a walk and said, “I feel worse.”
You talk about the restorative power of nature. How does it help your mental health?
I walk every day. Just seeing the colour green can rewire our brains. Putting your hands in the soil is really good for your biome. You need to eat a bit of mud. Gardening comes to us all in the end, usually at a point of crisis. I had a crisis. I’d just had my second child, and the first time my husband took the baby out, I didn’t know what I was doing. I went in the garden and started digging with a spoon. I was like, “I need to do something. I need control.” Your garden can delight you. Every time you look at it, you get a buzz.
What’s your favourite podcast that’s not your own?
I’m obsessed with The Rest Is History, but they don’t feature enough women. I’m going to launch a podcast with my sister, who is a history buff, called The Breast Is History, exclusively about women.
You’ve spent much of your career commenting on feminism. Are you optimistic?
We’ve had so much progress, like #MeToo, identifying coercive control and gaslighting. The feminist movement is a bit quiet now, but I’m a born optimist. It’s still difficult to be a woman, but there’s no other point in history that’s better. Women have spent the last 100 years stealing things from men – we’re going to wear trousers, we’re going to have sex, we’re going into space. Now men are in crisis.